39 responses to “Barack Obama and Rajiv Gandhi”

  1. swami

    Rajiv Gandhi used to speak well, is it?

  2. Gaurav

    YOU HATE BLACK PEOPLE .

    OBAMA ! OBAMA ! OBAMA !

  3. swami

    Hmm…

    “If you really want change without going through a violent revolution, you need an insider familiar with the workings of the system who will nudge it in the “right” direction”

    In the case of the US election campaign, who would be one such?

  4. Gaurav

    OT, from your dear friend

    “I see that nobody on this list has expressed outrage at this violation of a blogger’s birthright of freedom of speech! I am not sure if I can argue free sppeech for someone who calls for “armed struggle” in the name of Chairman Mao, but hey, what happened to the supportes of absolute free speech on this list! Where did the comrades disappear!”

  5. Patrix

    If you think Obama is just rhetoric and great oratory, you should check out his latest race speech. And he wrote it himself. I don’t think anyone will claim that until they really have.

    But of course, no one is perfect and there is a bit of image-building of any candidate but I don’t think the Rajiv Gandhi comparison holds.

  6. Gaurav

    Ravi,

    Fiqar not, Desi John Galt has weighed in as cartel representative, as has the big boob.

  7. Gaurav Sabnis

    Who is Desi John Galt?

  8. HiAgain

    From what I know, Rajiv Gandhi’s ‘power brokers’ speech was honest. Then the power brokers let him know of reality. A lot of politicians go through that phase. Even Bill Clinton, with several terms of experience as a governor, realized it late.

    Obama is not the usual machine politician and that is a big change in the presidential campaign in a long time.

  9. HiAgain

    PS: The days of John Galt are over. Even Martin Wolf of Financial Times is talking about the “US Public Sector” rescuing all the rich people who are in danger of losing everything (some in Bear Stearns have lost their life-savings.) I wish the “public sector” was around to rescue other people in their bad times.

    So the US may be better off electing someone who wholeheartedly believes in a “US Public Sector.”

    http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2008/03/19/stories/2008031950080900.htm

    These are good times :)

  10. Gaurav Sabnis

    Ravi

    I think the obama-rajiv comparison is a bit flawed, but for other reasons. I dont think he is that “clean” in the first place. Surely, maybe comparitively clean, but there is enough in his past that the Republicans will rake up if he is the nominee. Not McCain himself, and maybe McCain would not want it, but other R’s.

    About his kurta being clean because he never entered the gutter…. wrong on both counts. He came from the gutter… Chicago politics is as dirty as it gets… and he is not really clean. You may not know about the Tony Rezko connection. Rezko is a developer now under indictment. The media has talked about it but not gone into it in detail. And I think Hillary has largely laid off because she has worse skeletons in her cupboard.

    But one likely and almost certain stain. The house that Obama now lives in… its previous seller put it on the market along with an empty lot adjoining it. The seller was open to separate offers or combined. What ended up happening was Obama bought the house for $300K less than the market value, and Rezko bought the adjoining lot for $300K more than its market value.

    Unless Rezko and Obama were chaddi-buddies since childhood and could convince us “what’s 300K between friends?”, something stinks.

  11. Gaurav Sabnis

    And why the hell dont your comments recognize para breaks?

  12. Vivek

    Gaurav Sabnis,

    Since it is becoming more and more like rediff message boards, he might as well keep the bad formatting.

    Seriously, I am getting sick of going through the comment feed every day to read one decent comment out of a stack of tens of others on the north-south thread. Aargh..

    Some thoughts on this post.. I am not sure if a specific comparison with RG is notable. Every relatively inexperienced, young candidate in any election anywhere in the World promises change. BO promises more of it than anyone else, but promising change itself is nothing new. Not even in the American context.

    Ravi, you should listen to some of his speeches. No need of a TV.. just open YouTube.

  13. 7*6

    on the other hand, some would say insiders get so trapped in the spider web that they cannot swat away the cobwebs. Ergo, putting one’s faith on a “fresher” who stands for “change” and is competent or lucky enough to be a frontrunner, is quite rational. However, as you’d pointed out, the status quo is not due to some invidious conspiracy or oppression but due to the push and pulls within a given institutional setup.

    tsk, you’d say, the personalicious fresher should work on the institutions, not roll up his sleeves with gusto to tweak the push-pulls with a handspade. But the former is anyway a Sisyphean task because the institutions again owe their due not to inertia or conspiracy or oppression, but to the character and moral codes of the peoples. So ultimately the poor leader, if he wants change, should change the way the people think, what the people want, and what they aspire for.

    And what could be instrumental for this: oratory and charisma and speeches. I trust my flawless logic has made you an ardent Obama supporter.

  14. HiAgain

    Obama is best of the lot from the point of view of character and vision. But if he wins, he will get easily sidetracked. Hillary is the better option for implementation because she knows the game well.

    Most probably McCain will win. America is not ready for a black president or a female president.

  15. 7*6

    HiAgain, if we’d wanted your opinion, we’d have jumped off a cliff or stumbled in front of a train, cause we couldn’t have gone through life knowing that we’d wanted your opinion.

  16. HiAgain

    lol! Just like Americans “want” your opinion :)

    Try something other than personal insults. :D

  17. 7*6

    HiAgain, I’m very anti-opinion. You are thinking hey Ravikiran or 7*6 is offering opinions, but no we are offering flawless logic [tm]

  18. HiAgain

    Why are you hiding behind Ravikiran?

    Is this like a “Me, Myself and Ravikiran” show? What a cop out! Stand up for yourself.

    So you offer flawless logic (divorced from reality). It’s exactly what some people in mental asylums think. They are so sure of their logic that they are crazy.

    Keep on truckin’ young man!

  19. 7*6

    HiAgain, throwing flawful opinion at flawless logic [tm] will only make Ravikiran not allow you to hide behind him.

  20. HiAgain

    Thanks for paying so much attention to my “opinions”.

  21. 7*6

    HiAgain, I accept your gratitude for my humiliating you into seeing how unacceptable flawful opinions [tm] are.

  22. HiAgain

    Xenu owns you.

  23. Gaurav

    *Hey Bhagwan*

  24. The Acorn » Change, examined

    [...] in the gutter than someone whose Kurta is clean because they have never had to enter he gutter. [The Examined Life] Permalink | « A good woman in bad [...]

  25. 7*6

    *Hey Gaurav*

  26. Sriram

    If Hillary possesses atleast half the “bad” qualities her detractors attribute to her, she would* make the best president ever.
    *Or is it will?

  27. Rohit

    The concept of only an insider being able to nudge the system progressively is a good one. I’m surprised that of all I’ve read on the Primaries, more hasn’t been written about it. Hillary is the ultimate Washington insider, and ironically, that’s exactly why Obama says people shouldn’t be voting for her. So, essentially, the theme of your post is in direct contrast to Obama’s message.

  28. 7*6

    The concept of only an insider being able to nudge the system progressively is a good one.

    I’m surprised that Indians think this.
    otoh I should not be surprised that Indians do not have a particularly good high level political view; and are feudal.

    I’m paradoxical like that.

  29. Gaurav

    Ravi,

    Something was troubling me about this post, now I know what is that The insider can “accomplish”, for “change” you have to have someone who is not too involved or invested in the system and hence can take in the bigger picture.
    Also I think that as far as US is concerned, its division of legislature and executive means that unless same arty occupies both places the call for change is “just words”.

    Anyhoo Obama threw his grandmother under the bus instead of his Pastor. He is a very likable fellow.

  30. Sriram

    Is that because of the tense or because of nuance in the ‘if’?

  31. froginthewell

    What examples of the wisely nudging insiders do you have in mind? Deng Xiao Ping?

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  35. abrar

    hi.

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